This picture has been doing the rounds out on the Internet. Rose saw it and she was so upset that she left the room. She slammed her door so hard the frame popped.
Bruce Fish said: "Ah hell she's just fed up with the whole world some days".
Pancake was pretty sympathetic. His dad has always been a mystical guy. Currently, Pancake's dad calls himself a Zen-Christian. Good thing Rose had left. Pancake is perpetually in her bad-books.
I said my standard line: "Never let religion get in the way of your faith". Standard, yes, but I mean it. The people promoting this idea seem to be against religion and doctrine; so we might be at a stalemate.
Sweaty shrugged and said, " it was all bullshit." He was as ambiguous as usual.
French had this to say before we changed the subject: "It puts forward some tough ass questions, but these secular fundamentalists are a worrisome bunch".
What do you say?
16 comments:
I believe in Ecumenism.
I say I really want to send Rose a Christmas card. Like, really-truly. If I mail it to you, will you make sure she gets it?
I think the reason some people get so upset when you question their beliefs is that you're giving a voice to their own doubts, which they try so hard to keep silent.
I just let people believe what they choose to believe, since I can see all sides of that particular argument with equal clarity (blurry at best).
I also have a Buddha ornament on my Christmas tree.
i say the more we talk about it the better we off we are. and we should never stop having the dialogue.
dialogue, see? faith is a step, isn't it, a jump toward belief. and what is in between? air. how can any one person try to drive a nail through air? instead, let's all breathe.
xo
erin
Rituals, Rites and Rules, the three Rs of Religion. All religions have them and are indicative of mans attempt at attaining salvation with God through a system of allegory and manmade doctrines. The only problem? Doesn't work.
Salvation comes through grace, freely given and undeserving aslong as it is asked for. If that works with Allah, atheism, Vishnu or Osiris then so be it, but unfortunately it doesn't. Christ was clear in his walk that he didn't want his followers to be burdened with the boundaries and limits of manmade legalese and rhetoric, he wanted us to follow our path, lead by his word.
Secondly, If you go to church and do not consistently leave with goosebumps then why are you going to that church? Seek out and find one that uplifts you and nurtures your faith. Once you find it, you will be come so engaged that these theological "dilemmas" will be laughable.
Lastly, if you asked me, Religion IS the enemy, it absconds good people from their true unbridled faith. However, the most dangerous religion is the one that claims is not one at all, atheism.
Poot
Auschwitz, Dachau, Treblinka...
I believe Hell to be a human invention.
Maybe we should focus a little less on what God does and a little more on what we do. God knows there is room for improvement. And it's not like if we don't kill each other in God's name we won't kill each other at all.
Hm...a Zen-Christian. Maybe that's what I am. I just haven't figured out what to wear yet.
I'm with Erin, let's breathe. And with Andreas, we have made hell often enough on earth - perhaps that will be enough 'eternal' torture to satisfy our need to make people suffer. If God is LOVE, how could S/He not want everyone to be surrounded in LOVE eternally? Good work Ollie, the pot hadn't been stirred yet today!
I say, what we (or I) believe isn't what determines the truth. Where I put my faith determines how the truth will impact me. Thus, I live by Pascal's Wager. I believe in God, have faith in the sacrifice of Christ and pray God does not tarry long. Happy Advent. Please tell Rose, "HappyGirl believes."
i think that we let religeon too often get in the way of the love that is supposed to be its foundation...
i say that Truth isn't dependent upon what i say.
ooh i like bethany's answer.
and i love "they're a worrisome bunch."
and it all makes me want to cry, and slam doors, just like rose, because i wish i could just sweep up the world and take everyone to heaven.
Loving this discussion you've provoked :)
Well, I will be ambiguous and say ... I like this post. Down the page there ... Anonymous said among other things:
"Rituals, Rites and Rules, the three Rs of Religion. All religions have them and are indicative of mans attempt at attaining salvation with God through a system of allegory and manmade doctrines. The only problem? Doesn't work.
I do disagree with this statement somewhat. I do not necessarily think that it is man's attempt at salvation by instead man's attempt to control others.
I have always had a fairly strong faith until recently that is. I belonged to a writing site that was rampant with far right wing fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist atheists. Let me tell you ... it was so pleasant that it could easily have been the beginnings of WWIII. Oh, and i question my faith significantly. Frankly these people were more than I could take ... it was a place that I enjoyed for years. Now I rarely visit.
Well, secular fundamentalism is really an oxymoron. Secularism at root means a plurality of views and it would not be possible to force a 'fundamentalism' of that. I doubt it would ever become 'fundamental' because of the incredible capacity humans have for delusional belief systems that allow them to somehow feel righteous in hurting others. Humans are flawed but religion allows us to fool ourselves into thinking we have somehow "bettered" ourselves and are closer to perfection. Atheism is really the beginning of "morality" in that it forbids us to place blame on anyone but ourselves, ridding us of the age old cycle of sin and repentance or the "devil made me do it" mentality. Some philosophers believe God transcends conceptualization, let alone religion, so both Christians and atheists are wrong in attempting to "conceive" of God whether to affirm or negate. Neither camp shows true, critical introspection as they have already have a pre-formed "notion" of truth. From my end, at the end of the day, people need to admit what they don't understand, respect each other no matter what they believe, and teach their children to think for themselves. Most religious people I know are generally miserable, bitter individuals who embody an almost psychotic jealousy of other people's freedoms. Most atheists I know are generally more thoughtful and open-minded but can be equally as bitter. I try to avoid both camps or any "camp" for that matter. Hot topic Olie. Yikes.
I don't have a religion, I have a relationship.
Poot
Good post, Ollie. The light only pierces the cracks of our ideologies, most times.
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